Beat a Go Go

Rob, the ultimate soul of the band, came with promoter Irena (Buba Promotions) for the interview. He is a charming man with short white hair, small beard and big black-rimmed glasses.  He was wearing proudly a Ramones hoodie as the biggest fan on Earth.

We sat down comfortably at a small round table. Rob lit his cigarette and started the conversation.

Rob: What is your name again, sorry?

Taisija: My name is Taisija.

Rob: Taisija?  It doesn't sound like a typical Slovenian name...

Taisija: No, it is not. My grandmother came from Russia.  The other part of the family came from Italy, well there is also Polish and German roots and... -I have a huge family history...quite an interesting story behind... but well, I am Slovene, a citizen of the World...I think there is only one person here in Slovenia with the same name as mine... It was always a strange name here.

Well, I am a freelancer - I love to write, especially for American webzine beat-a-go-go.com

Rob: That's great! There is a future on the web- that's the way the world is going on ...

Taisija: I saw you playing on many concerts here in Slovenia.

Rob: Yes, we were here many times.

Taisija: How do you feel here?

Rob: Oh, we always have a great time here. I think we came here on our first tour in 1987. And every time we came to Europe.  I think we'd missed coming here only one time for one reason or another.  I'd say every two years since the 80's.  We didn't come with NoMeansNo here last five years, just recently, but we'v been many times, many times.....

Taisija: Irena says that she brought NoMeansNo twelwe times to Slovenia, up to now...

Rob onstage - photo by Irena Povse

Rob: Twelve times - this is amazing !  

Taisija: Yes,...this is the same number as your studio CD releases.

Rob: Yes, yes (laughing).  There's always been good shows and in the `80s and early `90s, we had a few thousand people at one show - really big shows too, as good as anywhere in Europe -we appreciate it.

Taisija: All Roads Lead To Ausfahrt, your last cd was relased in August 2006.

Rob: Yes, we haven't been on the road in Europe for the last six years, because we had problems....we haven't been around for a while, a few years, and when you come again people are like, "Wow, they are still alive" .  There are many of those kinds of guys.  So, we have been maturing since the last years ....mentally.

Taisija: How would you describe your music to somebody who doasn't know anything about it?  Of course it is alternative rock, underground-punk, "rock in opposition" - it has elements of hard/heavy rock , jazz and blues ... With all these elements, your music is completely unique.

Rob: Yes, this is great....Yes....We never want to be a part of anything of any genre.  You see, the bands like Joy Division - that was a rock band, punk band - but that is not what they were, really, they were Joy Division, that's all. That's all they were, really.  That kind of band is smart. That is what we always want to be.  The background for the band needs to be considered - basically what is coming out of yourself and what you are listening to.  And you are drawing from what you listen to.  And there is another reason why ...I was quite old when I started to play -I was like 25 when we started with NoMeansNo.  My brother was a teenager still, he was under 20.

Taisija: You two started the band at your home basement at your parents' house.

Rob in the tour van - photo by Irena Povse

Rob: Yes.  I listened to everything when I was young - jazz, rock, prog rock, metal, pop, The Beatles ....And he - my brother - had a formal training as a drummer in the school bands with jazz technique.  And he knows how to write music stuff.  So, I would bring everything that I heard and put it in the context of the punk movement at the time, which was aggressive "fuck you", whatever you want kind of music.  And he came out with less loud rock energy music but more technique in drums structures ...My young brother was quite a good drummer! I think that combination....Well, one thing is most important - we started only as a rhythm section, bass and a drummer.  First couple years and our first album was all just us two.  When you do that and you write and play, you cannot do three-chord punk rock, you cannot do standard rock music because it doesn't work - you need a guitar! So, you have to fill and cover with vocals and drums and bass - all you have - to take up the space that's left by the fact that there is no guitar.  And when we did get a guitar player he was someone who  admired people who did different things - like Andy Gill from Gang of Four and stuff like that.  So, we always had an outside musical perspective. The other things which were outside of punk- the other things that  bands which had  a guitar base were doing...and luckily, because we did have a lot of energy, it was loud and aggressive. And because we got our own authentic great punk rock label, so, we played what was really not in accordance with punk music.  All that gave us  a lot of freedom.  We basically did what we wanted to do. No record company tell us what we should play or not play.  So, that's what a band needs to develop to sound like us.

And at the same time I would like to say that we embarrass ourselves over and over again (total laughing)

If you listen to the latest album and the first album, some people say it is like a completely different band.  I don't think so.  We still have the some basic elements - the same focus, you know.  But you see, it's not easy for people outside of the band to understand it.  If you are in the band, your perspective is quite different.

Taisija: Of course. It's interesting the classic rock band is considered to be drums, bass and guitar.

Rob: Yes, it is completely the standard set-up.  I mean, really, we had that much musical background.  We were doing different things, but things were still done by other people.  I mean, we play jazz stuff...we just throw it in ...We don't like "Oh, people will do a jazz song now, what's this".   We have a valuable sense of shape about the other music.     We never said we can't do that or NoMeansNo shouldn't do that....Why not? Ten minute blues song - we'll do it! Why not ? Who'll stop us ? (laughing)

Taisija: You are the main composer in the band. But you also did few impressive  covers, Beat On The Brat of Ramones, Miles Davis' fifteen minutes version of Bitches Brew, Jimi Hendrix....

Rob: Yes,  again, people who inspired us.  I like sometimes going to the people like Miles Davis and his Gent Louis ...not musically so much as....I mean, Ramones too- we love the Ramones , but NoMeansNo didn't sound much like the Ramones' style of music....These are bands and people had a huge influence, intense - the emotional impact they have. even more than the musical impact... Whose characters make their music what it is... as much as they need to play right....so this music is a combination of ther characters and .....they seem very different people but they have very much in common for sure.  Their characters in forms of music and technique is how they play it.  So, the expression of music is maybe very different but it is all from them, straight, direct.  Like Miles has played during his career how many different times - thousands, but it was all Miles, unmistakably him, every time.  Yeah, that's great, to do that.

Taisija: Yes, that 's true...that is beautiful...

Rob: And Ramones were playing Beach Boys (laughing)

NoMeansNo with their tour van - photo by Irena Povse

Taisija: How many times you were at a Ramones concert ? (I couldn't resist and I looked at his Ramones hood, which just suits him so well, and smiled)

Rob: I saw them only twice.  Those two first records were like jewels.
They're like jams. fuck whatever ...a certain perfection.  I love what they did. And completely coming from less.  I've heard from the people who were there.  There was no premeditation...no brain, intellectual process there.  There is what they did. And it was just perfect.  Perfect in time and place and sound.  

I can still listen to those first two records.  That's exactly right, exactly right...(laughing)
It is so tragic that they are all gone. In such a quick process - all young and all gone. I mean Dee Dee is not quite a surprise  ...but...Joey and Johnny...... bizarre ...in a period of eight years they are all gone.

Taisija: I saw them on their last tour in Ljubljana - it was quite emotional for me....their music is so simple but so straight from...

Rob: Oh yeah, that's what I mean! The impact that it had it wasn't so much musically...People see what they see...People saw Ramones concerts in late '70s, it blew their minds up!  All people in the jam .. Sex Pistols and Clash, The Damned all went to see that first tour of the Ramones.  I'm sure there is a reason being included and playing...yeah, amusing, four idiots...Yeah, Joey was the composer...he was so nervous, mentally and physically sick, he was sick all the time, all his career, he had obsessive-compulsive disorder.
Did you see the documentary movie about the Ramones?

Taisija: Yes, End of the Century:The Story Of The Ramones.

Rob: It was great to show to the people.

Taisija: Your DVD Would We Be....Live? Is it a documentary or a show ? I haven't seen it yet.

Rob: No, it is just a show.  Documentary movie - that would be boring! (laughing) All my performance is built and comes from the stage and on the stage.  At home I'm quite a boring person (laughing)

Taisija: What do you think about alternative punk/rock scene..about bands and people which were supporting this  music- the enthusiasm of those people.  You become very famous -one of these famous bands which came from this..

Rob: ...kind of idea ....

Taisija: Yes.

Rob: Yes, yes,...the push is gone mostly....But things can't stay, you know, all those things that...One reason that people get one idea and just sweep through the group in the name of art and make the community and everything is exciting and everything is new.  But that never lasts....I mean, human beings will be what they are.  You know, all hippies become doctors or lawyers or bankers...I don't know what they became but, you know, people grow up and they change and they lose the focus they had - that is also always natural.  Life is not about just one idea or one community, it is occasionally changing around you.  And if you don't change with time, it just looks like a guy in some old leather jacket (laughing) - "That's all done- didn't anyone ever tell you?  It's over!"

I mean, you got to change - unfortunately - but a lot of things - these positive things in music changed for the worse, I mean, music turned completely commercial.  Bands got started to be rock stars and to make videos...big famous rock makes deals, people don't care who you are, some new labels...they don't care... so, it lost all focus..but you never know things...Then the community started on the Internet.  The music business crumbles because they can't control the market any more.  Good, I hope I'll live to see that day that it's all gone, all this putting together of all the parts, building fucking pop stars on the radio. That would be great.  And the next thing that is gonna happen is the community on the web. Bands will be on Myspace and things like that.  Somebody will make a video and record a song, putting it on the web, and millions of people can be watching it. Making a record and touring - that's cool, that would be great.  That makes the purity and originality return to music.  Instead of this corporate thing which just destroyed music - Britney Spears and all these people are manufactured.  Stand with Pepsi on your ass, stuck on the stage - "Yeah, I don't know why but yeah".

I hope for the new movement on the web - that would be nice.  But what kind of music can we realistically expect?  Dance music alternative, maybe someone from Ghana, who makes music based on their own culture, who made their own art on hip-hop, hook it on the web...I saw it will be touring in the States - the next big thing  - that would be great - that would be wonderful... My not liking them doesn't matter (laughing).

Taisija: There are many speculations, but how will musicians earn mony if everything will be on web?  The CDs are not  selling so much any more.

Rob: The musicians originally made money from going out and getting into a little place where a bunch of people came, and playing music.  When people clap, they got a little money (both laughing) That's what musicians do.  Then they were paid every time that their little song which they recorded went on the radio, or someone bought a CD.  That's kind of a new thing actually.  And I don't know - was it a great thing?  I don't care about that.  I think people who complain about dowloading - especially small bands - if you don't get paid for as much as your music has been heard...Well, no, but somebody has heard your music, and this is how a career is made!  People hear your music and like it. That is good!. No need to pay for every single download or every single time somebody hears your music. Enough music is available. So, it is better if you are heard.  If somebody means : "You cannot listen without buying my record because I want to be paid."  Well, OK, but it's enough good for the rest of life.   Because you know, it's counterproductive to worry about the payment. Really, `cause once everyone likes you, you can go everywhere you want to play your music, and make money. Everyone will be glad to convene to have cappuccino, you know, and that's what musicians do....(laughing and looking at me) You know...Then what?...Dammit! (total laughing)

I haven't said I don't mind to be paid for my records and I like it that radio pays money, but I realized that that's nothing really to do with me and my career musically, and how people enjoy my music.  It's pretty much the chicken way before the egg.  You know. you can see some big bands being against it all.  But the people from Metallica?  I'm supposed to feel sorry for them? Pfff, give me a break.  Do another tour and make $30,000,000.  Why should I care? Why do people care - people doubt their minds.They don't see the big picture they just see. "He is missing 5 bucks"....Come on, come on man! (laughing)

Taisija: How is it for example with these small clubs in States, comparing with Europe?

Rob: (laughing) Horrible, horrible - it's always been horrible.

Taisija: And you were playing also in New Zealand and Australia.

Rob: It's good, it's good but sooooo expensive to get there....it's kind of break-even.  You'll spend all your money to get there and get back home. And you know making money there all goes for expenses. So, we tend to want to come to places where actually money comes home with us - that's nice, pays bills, you know.

But yeah, that's want the places to play.

The States are hard, you know.   Rock split apart because it's so hard core commercial. You've got to bring people in to sell beer.  That's it.  If you don't do that, there's nobody that would want to see you. It's  pretty hard to make money for clubs, bands, anybody and it's always been like that from the very beginning.  That's how Europe can be so rewarding. You know, good hospitality, respect to musicians, you know, good treatment, people who are booking shows and putting on the gig and the music- just thinking about it all.  In the States it's always been more about money - always - and way less friendly and respectful.  I would doubt that will be changed. It's just the nature of cultures.  This is inner respect from people playing music, but do anything in the arts in Europe but that isn't the States.  The States is: "Oh, you're a musician, you make a lot of money, you must be great - you don't?? You must be a bum!" Whereas here, you know, if you don't make a lot of money, but you still do something very interesting, people still respect your craft, your skill, you know - you get something basic, an understanding that goes beyond just the dollars and cents.  That's generalization, isn't it? There is a lot of commercialism in Europe as well, but in general, it's better here than it is in North America. That's just the way it goes.

Taisija: Do you have any special -unusual-great-strange-funny-sad -bizarre-... memories from band's tours or gig which stay in your mind as something memorable or...

Rob: Well, that other guy - before you - asked me what was the best show in Ljubljana Slovenia. I said that don't know what the best show was, but the weirdest show was when we came to the show, it was a big old hall, I forget where it was, I'm freakin terrible at that stuff... There were big marble steps.

Taisija: Yes, I know the place, it's called The Festival Hall.

Rob: Yeah, it was a big show.  I don't know, maybe 900 people that night there.  And in the afternoon we went to this cafe, and a guy said :  "NoMeansNo, would you like some cookies?? And I said, OK, sure, I'll have a cookie with my coffee, and I was, oh, that just tastes really weird and I was "Wow...an Amsterdam cookie!" and it was, don't know what it was full of, but ..I had  never been so fucking stoned in my whole life...(making buzzing sound)

It was me,  the second drummer Ken, and a roadie, we all had some of those cookies and we were just loaded, you know, we were just - we got up on stage and I looked at Ken, and he was fucking out of it, so I don't know if you saw that show, but I was out of my mind stoned for the entire show, I was completely flying, I was like, "Oh yeah, waaah!!!" It was like 1967 in San Francisco, electric kool-aid-acid..... it was bizarre...

Taisija: I remember that show... (laughing) yes, I was there.  Yes, it was a bit unusual...

Rob: And the next day I had such  a stomach ache, owwww..... It was, oh , heart-burn like crazy, I don't know what they put in these cookies... So, yes that was the highlight in Slovenia, that one time (laughing)

Yes.There you go...you do some strange things when you tour, you know I'm  the kind of guy, I drink a bit, but only after the show.

I can see why they did it originally, I don't know if it was any good but I didn't really care at that point.  I'll tell you...."Keep going..what's the next song..fuck!"

Taisija: It's quite hard to play stoned or drunk though.

Rob: Yes, it's hard to do it even straight.

Taisija: OK, so here we go to the last question, can you tell me briefly, what is your plan for your next CD?

Rob: Next CD?  Um, well, we've been touring like crazy and we don't write on the road, so, it's basically gonna come out of whatever we do in the next six months at home and um, I've been listening to a lot of electronic music and we're not gonna add electronics to the band, but I'm thinking of composing more on a computer.  I used to just sit and I'd put things out...but I'm trying to get away from structure which is just verse, verse, chorus, verse and that kind of thing and do a little more of the things that go around, and you add things and you take them away and just stop. So hopefully...I say things, I like the ideas but then things came out the way they always do, you know, it comes out and you take it, you don't second-guess them, because there may come a day when they don't come out and you'll be screwed, so.....(laughing)

But I have ideas of ways of doing it that might make a little difference, so, that's when I got them, after a month of just hibernating 'cause I'm beat, it's been a long year, it's been hard, but....

NoMeansNo on stage - photo by Irena Povse

From Taisija: Very special thanks to: Rob for the interview, to the band for two great concerts and beer, and to my friend Irena for all organization and fun on the road, and also for her great photos.

P.S.: This time I saw two different concerts of NoMeansNo - one in Ljubljana and the other one in Slovenske Konjice in a smaller club.  There are rumors around that The Hanson Brothers - Ramones tribute band - is coming in Europe -Slovenija in autumn ... See you there, my friends.

  LINKS:

http://www.myspace.com/myspaceiswrong

http://www.nomeanswhatever

http://www.myspace.com/invasives

http://www.myspace.com/zmajevrep

http:// www.myspace.com/bubabooking

http://www.ljudmila.org/buba